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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:10 am

I read this morning that the girls will now face incarceration in a penal colony for 2 years (in addition to their previous 5 months detention) for charges of hooliganism and for having crudely undermined social order. The charges have received widespread condemnation and would seem more appropriate if dished out after a violent Russian premier league soccer game as opposed to a punk bad for expressing themselves in 2012. As Tom said yesterday, even repressive regimes still rely on the obedience and cooperation of the people, if they have nothing to lose the government is doomed. In a country that has a long history of silencing activists, journalists and political opponents lets hope the anticipated backlash will start a ripple effect that leads to a situation where more freedom of speech exists for the Russian people. Check Human Rights Watch website for more info. http://www.hrw.org/

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Jennifer - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 07:26 PM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:11 am

I've been keeping an eye on this case and was hoping they were going to be sentenced to some community service work or some alternative. Or ideally be let free and victorious.. which probably doesnt exist in Russa. I'm not surprised however by the severity of the penalty, given Russia's stance on freedom of speech and public activism.

This case raises a few examples on the things we have been discussing with Tom over the past two weeks. In the first instance as in the Gandhian case, it often does end in incarceration to get some messages out to the wider public, and in this case the world, which has been hugely successful. Many artists are now boycotting Russia as one example.

So although the girls have been sent to jail, or a penal colony, it has been positive in that it has placed a spotlight on continuing the fight against human rights issues and abuses in the Soviet Union. Hopefully this attention at least has saved these girls lives and futures. If they are found mysteriously dead now, as so many other activists are in Russia, there would be more than a shadow of doubt and floodlights on the Soviet.

However, in saying this, with reference to Sharp's critique of the Gandhian approach, this stunt lacked some integral planning. I am sure the girls with families and children at home did not plan to be sent to jail and unable to see their loved ones dail;y for two whole years. I admire their courage to speak out against the injustices and inconsistency of a Nation State that has the church at the centre of its ideology and policy. However, this is a perfect example of where there was too much of a gap between the elite and the activists, and the backfire was not strategically incorporated. I'm not sure that trying to get the message across in an unsympathetic crowd was the best way to deliver this contoversy.

Nuns and Priests become as such, because they love and dedicate their lives to God, which in Russia still equals the State. Therefore they probably weren't the best people to try and convert to their cause. What the case and defence team highlighted more, against the girls, was the distress they caused, and disrepect they displayed in a place of worship and peace, added to anti-establishmentarianism. To many this was anything BUT non-violent activism. Their actions were maybe not the best way to get the support of the people they wanted for conversion.

This was a great message for Pussy Riot to deliver, and was targeted at the institution that supports the State, however on Sharp's reccommendation; that actions are made appropriate for the situation, in this case Punk Rock in a church is not appropriate, therefore the conversion has not worked.

So maybe back to a Gandhian approach on this one..

*Don't humiliate or provoke those you wish to convert.

*Find common ground to co-operate on.

*Attack someone, and they will attack back.

*Find elements of common interest.

*Civil disobedience must be coupled with constructive work.

*Believe the party might be amenable to the issues of the heart and mind.

*Do not exploit the opponents weakness.

*Convert the opponent to your position

So, possibly a naive and cheesy approach... but...maybe the girls could have gone to church as congregation over a period of time and got friendly with the clergy and nuns and discussed these issues first, and then asked to sing a song to the congregation some day with a special message. That way they'd have had the church open hearted and possibly a bit more compassionate, even as they delivered a message hard for the church to swallow, because they'd not have been attacked or humiliated.

I know it's not really the Punk way to deliver messages gently, anti establishment and non conformity are some main features, and in the true spirit of Punk in this case, the girls used high theatrics to outrage the mainstream it wished to convert. Unfortunately this pushes the message, in the eyes of the establishment and in the country they wanted to appeal to, to the realms of sub-culture and delinquency.

We in the West have picked it up with indignation and relish, but we are already converted in varying degrees to democraacy, freedom of speech, secularism, and human rights.

This is the you tube link to watch the incident..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtYw-d1CSxQ

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Ajantha - Tuesday, 21 August 2012, 12:56 PM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:12 am

Pusy Riots may be taking a non-violent activity but more radically! They were active since Aug 2011 (just one year) and now in a bid trouble. Gandhi started non violence activism when he was in SA and continued until his death in 1948. Though he went to jail numerous times, it did not have any impact on his movement but it became more and more popular among the people.

This was because Gandhi new how to deal with people, their culture, and their beliefs. His foundation of non-vilence activism was the "people". But for Pusy Riots, I think they just ignore what people believe and how they can deal with people. Church is very powerful politically as well as culturally, I suppose. Pussy Riots ignored that matter and took their own way!

Wikipedia has some facts about opinion polls on the trials and those numbers reveal that majority of the population are justifying the trials. Following is quoted from the Wikipedia!

=================================
Public opinion in Russia

The Russian Orthodox church condemned the Pussy Riot performance as "blasphemy and sacrilege".

A series of Levada Center polls showed that 44% of Russians believed that the trial was "fair and impartial" while 17% believed it was not. 36% believed that the verdict would be based on the evidence and 18% believed that the verdict would be influenced by the state. 6% sympathised with Pussy Riot, while 41% felt antipathy towards them. However, 58% of respondents expected the defendants to receive a disproportionate punishment.

===========================================

If they really understood what people believe, they could have gained more success.

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Joanna- Wednesday, 22 August 2012, 09:53 AM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:12 am

Exactly Ajantha! So again, coming back to Gandhi's approach about non-violent activism:

"Don't humiliate or provoke those you wish to convert"

"Civil disobedience must be coupled with constructive work"

"Do not exploit the opponents weakness"

"Convert the opponen to your position"

...

I just add four of many of Gandhi's approaches, but for me those ones perfectly show the opposit what Pussy Riots're doing, therefore I reckon their way of acting wont foster any positive change...

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Jennifer - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 09:58 PM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:13 am

Structural Violence...Johan Gultang

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DokExBCDOqE&feature=colike

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Rebecca T - Monday, 20 August 2012, 12:13 AM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:13 am

“The case against the Pussy Riot band members seems aimed not at protecting public order and security but at setting boundaries for political criticism”

It’s really scary when you see young people with an opposing opinion being oppressed like this. The only option that is left is to OBEY. The State allows itself to be all-powerful and merciless.

Even the people who were protesting the detention of the Pussy Riot members were detained!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tax4wFFBSLo&feature=fvwrel

Jen, you brought up a really good point when you noted that they humiliated and attacked, which created a defensive and punitive reaction.

Their purpose was obviously not peaceful; they wanted to create an uproar, a scandal, and even in their interviews, they seem satisfied with the disturbance they caused.

This was their approach, and though the world is shocked at their sentence, perhaps the girls, who grew up in this political and religious climate, aren’t…

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Giovanna - Monday, 20 August 2012, 02:53 PM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:14 am

I would like to know what how Russia's government defines a non authorised protest or manifestation...

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Fiona - Monday, 20 August 2012, 06:59 PM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:14 am

I’ve also been following this case and was disappointed, though unsurprised, by the verdict. I think that the band is extremely brave and feel a lot of sympathy for the women and their families.

That said, I agree with Jen that unfortunately the protest was counter-productive - there was a backfire to the protest, and the women will face long jail sentences for their efforts. Thinking on what Tom was saying about ‘strategic goals’ and ‘political objectives’, it seems to me that the two are confused in this case. The political objective (i.e. the protest) was achieved, but the strategic goal (I assume to change the minds of the Russian community about Putin) was not. The band was unable to inspire empathy from the community that they were trying to change, or to convince the community of their honesty, integrity etc.

It is interesting that the widespread, generally peaceful protests in 2011 and 2012 against Putin were largely supported by the public. Since then, new laws have been brought in to restrict such protests and many activists’ homes were recently raided and they were brought in for questioning by the government. This has drawn less international attention than the Pussy Riot protest.

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Rebecca T - Tuesday, 21 August 2012, 12:12 AM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:15 am

Unable to inspire empathy from the part of community in power, perhaps, but I would guess that they have inspired the people "closer to the ground," including those who led the peaceful protests, plus a big chunk of the community who hungers for change.

It could well be that these girls will go down in history as the initiators of political and social emancipation in Russia... Here's hoping!

Then hopefully, just like Mandela, the years spent in prison will be a worthy price to pay for societal liberation and human rights.

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Joanna - Tuesday, 21 August 2012, 11:53 AM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:15 am

Pussy Riots have chosen very delicate way to fight against the "monster" Putin. I agree with their right to free expression and I admire them for their brave act; however I have doubts whether it was the right way to demonstrate their political protests in such religious country as Russia.

Shouldn’t we follow as Tom said in the last lecture; more intelligent, non-violent way of activism that does not offend, but teach? (The case of student’s riots who were throwing bananas on security men…)

Shouldn’t we think beforehead whether our protest will be well understood and will not be perceived as a profanity on russian church?

I do believe they have a whole right to express their thoughts about corrupted Putin’s power and Kyrills support. However I don’t think it’s gonna be effective enough to change the powerful position of the church and the president (who lead the country in corrupted way since the late 1990s) benefitting from the complicity of religious leaders full of power and political influence.

Neverthless it already provocates some groups of activists to express themselfs, especially in a countries of Eastern Europe that has similar situation to Russia, check the below link where the Ukrainian activists from the Femen movement cut down a cross in central Kyiv in a gesture of solidarity with the Punk group: Pussy Riots:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO2Ae3Nw-Kg

And what do you think about that sort of act? Profanity or non-violent activism?

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Kristin- Thursday, 23 August 2012, 11:22 PM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:15 am

I have to disagree. I think the Pussy Riot protest has been incredibly successful!

When you have an opponent who doesnt respect you, who is aggressive and violent, who is oppressive and abusive of human rights, then sitting down and having a nice chat isn’t going to make any difference.

Sometimes you have to be loud to be heard. And no one can argue that the Pussy Riot message hasn’t been heard. By the whole world! And in my opinion that was their goal. To provoke the establishment, to object to the human rights abuses, and ultimately to seek attention to their cause.

The trial and the sentencing have received media scrutiny from the entire (western) world. Most people were totally unaware of the issues facing Russia before the Pussy Riot protest and the subsequent media coverage. And as a result we now see protests in support of the group have been carried out in major cities across the world and featured heavily through social media.

I would love to see a report on the value of all this publicity. It would be worth many millions of dollars!

Avaaz.org is one of the world’s largest social change networks (15 mill members) have launched a huge online campaign to put pressure on the Russian Government. They are saying Pussy Riots has created a moment that should be seized on which I think is a very good point. http://www.avaaz.org/en/free_pussy_riot_free_russia/?bZNtVcb&v=17280.

Criticism from international stakeholders which has been featured in the media include:

German chancellor Angela Merkel said the sentence was “excessively harsh” and “not compatible with the European values of the rule of law and democracy”. EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton described the outcome as “deeply troubling”.

Furthermore, according to the Avaaz.org, the European Parliament is calling for an assets freeze and travel ban on Putin’s powerful inner circle who are accused of multiple crimes.

I do think there is a time and a place when provocation and humiliation is called for. The three women in the Pussy Riot group are making a big sacrifice by going to jail, but that was also something Gandhi wasn’t afraid of. Maybe a small price to pay if the Russian people can see real change as a result. Which I hope they will!

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Rebecca T - Sunday, 26 August 2012, 06:17 PM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:16 am

Here is an article that looks at the Pussy Riot issue from a different angle. There is more to the sentencing than just the church show/riot. They have also engaged in an orgy in a public museum, shoved chickens into their vaginas at a public supermarket, plus impromptu performances of their songs on top of buses, in public train stations and more.

Though presented by the media as being a “punk rock group”, they are more accurately dubbed “radical political activists”. The author of this article says that even using the words “political” or “activist” seems inappropriate because their activities are so geared at inciting public outrage and condemning the whole of Russian society. He thus argues that the term “hooligan” fits very well.

The article is called ‘Western Media’s Pussy Riot Narrative the Most Transparent Example of Organized Manipulation of Public Opinion in History’

This is the link: Definitely worth a read!

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/?p=210

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Jennifer - Monday, 27 August 2012, 10:23 AM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:17 am

Two of the band members have fled the country in the past 24 hours in fear of being arrested.

I'm not sure this shows solidarity for the cause or allows the wider public to remain behind the cause when the people involved take a self interest and disappear. If you are really passionate and serious about your wish for change don't you stay until the end with your team..?

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Catherine - Monday, 27 August 2012, 02:54 PM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:17 am

Wow Rebecca, very interesting read! Just goes to show how there is usually two sides to every story. The author provides an interesting discussion on how government authorities and the media can manipulate or censor the facts to support their own interests, and in this case he argues for geopolitical purposes. Something I have never considered before regarding this issue..

Jennifer, good point. Where have they fled to?

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Fiona - Tuesday, 28 August 2012, 07:47 PM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:18 am

That’s a really interesting article - Pussy Riot are pretty out there! I hadn’t bothered to read about their other protests, just their most recent – I will next time.

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Rebecca M - Sunday, 2 September 2012, 09:08 AM

Post  Emil Kristoffer Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:19 am

Great link thanks Beccy. The article represents how wary we need to be of relationship between the media and the Government, when filtering any news. I think most of us are already aware of this but to see it in action on this scale is indeed frightening.

"The only reason there would exist such a unified front, consciously distorting reality, is because the media outlets themselves are having the narrative dictated to them by the US government. There is no other possible way that what is happening could be happening. And that is frightening."

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Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM Empty Re: Pussy Riot by Peter - Saturday, 18 August 2012, 03:26 PM

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